The preexistence of Messiah
When we read the Old Testament Scriptures we find them testifying of Messiah in two different ways, none of which speak of Him as a literal preexisted eternal being.
John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
Luke 24:27 Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
The first way the Old Testament testifies of Messiah is Him as being the promised seed, equating to His geology or family tree.
He's the promised seed of Eve.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed/Christ; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.”
The promised seed of Abraham.
Genesis 22:18 In your (Abraham) seed/Christ all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”
Acts 3:25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed/Christ all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed/Christ were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
The promised seed of King David.
Romans 1:3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh.
When someone is in seed form, they are not a literal being yet. The promised seed is the family history or bloodline of Messiah. We can find Messiah's complete genealogy in Matthew 1:1-6.
Matthew 1:1-6 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham: Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Messiah, is the foreordained plan of God.
The Hebrew mind understands preexistence as, something which was first in God's mind before becoming a reality.
"From the beginning of the creation of the world king Messiah was born, for he entered the mind (of God) before even the world was created" (Pesikta Rab. 152b)
Before Messiah became a reality, through His birth through Mary, He was a foreordained plan of God, which God had in His mind before Messiah ever existed. To get an understanding of this, we can see an example of how Jeremiah was also foreordained in the mind of God prior to him literally coming into existence through his birth.
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.
All the verses that speak of Messiah in the Old Testament is in prophetic language. In other words, something that was to take place in the future, but was first foreordained in the past in the mind of God.
1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
The birth, life and death of Messiah was all foreordained and per-planned in the mind of God before becoming a literal reality through His birth through Mary.
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Purpose: the reason for which something exists or is done.
Ephesians 1:9 God told us the secret of what He wanted to do. It is this: In loving thought He planned long ago to send Christ into the world.
Romans 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.
Acts 2:23 But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out when Jesus was betrayed. With the help of lawless Gentiles, you nailed him to a cross and killed him.
Messiah didn't literally exist in the Old Testament prophecies about Him.
Micah 5:2 Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are too little to be among the family groups of Judah. But from you One will come who will rule for Me in Israel. His coming was planned long ago, from the beginning.
Deuteronomy 18:15 Moses continued, “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.
Acts 7:37 “This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.’
John 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
Luke 24:27 Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
Isaiah is a good example of how God's foreordained plan for Messiah was a future reality, which means He did not exist when Isaiah was saying the words and we know this because Isaiah testified that Messiah SHALL BE called. The words (SHALL BE) speak of a future reality.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Messiah was literally crucified just over 2000 years ago but, in the mind of His Father, as a foreordained plan, Messiah was slain from before the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
When we read in John about how the word was with God and the word was God it's referring to the thoughts of God. A (word) is an expression of a thought. God's thoughts originate with Him so the (word) is with God because they are His thoughts. God spoke and the world was created by the power of His Spirit. The Old Testament speaks in prophetic language of a promised Messiah being born of a virgin, which was to be a sign that God was with them. When Messiah was born, the (word) became flesh. In other words, the thought (foreordained plan) became a reality.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
How about when God said, "Let us make man in our image"?
The word (Us) is the translators erroneous attempt is put Jesus with His Father before Jesus was born. The original language does not use capital letters, so when a translator uses one, he is trying to get you to believe something that is not there.
When we read Isaiah 6:8 you find the translator using the same capital letter, just like in Genesis.
Isaiah 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”What the translator is doing is he is trying to get the reader to believe it’s God talking to Jesus, but when you go into the context you find that it’s God talking to His angelic host.
Now read Isaiah 6:8 in context, and you will see how God is always surrounded by His angelic host, so when He talks, He is including His heavenly court.
Isaiah 6:1-8 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and His train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one cried unto another and said, “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory.” And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, “Woe is me! For I am undone, because I am a man of unclean lips and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.” Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar. And he laid it upon my mouth and said, “Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.” Also, I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then said I, “Here am I. Send me!”
This same heavenly court of angels was with God during the Genesis creation.
Job 38:4-7 Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you know so much. Who determined its dimensions and stretched out the surveying line? What supports its foundations, and who laid its cornerstone as the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?
When God created the Genesis creation, Jesus was not their to help Him. God did it all alone and all by Himself.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself.
Job 9:7-8 If he commands it, the sun won’t rise and the stars don’t shine. He alone has spread out the heavens and marches on the waves of the sea.
Isaiah 45:18 For the Lord is God, and he created the heavens and earth and put everything in place. He made the world to be lived in, not to be a place of empty chaos. “I am the Lord,” he says, “and there is no other.
When God uses the word (us) He is not referring to Him and Jesus, He is referring to His angelic host. His angels are created perfect, holy and righteous and in His image, just like man was created perfect, holy and righteous and in His image.
Genesis 1:27 God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
At the resurrection we will once again be perfect, holy and righteous, just like the angels.
Mark 12:25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
Some pastors will tell you that it was Jesus who created us but this is not true, even Messiah Himself tells us it was His Father who created us, not Him.
Matthew 19:4 “Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.’”
Mark 10:5-6 Jesus answered and said to them, “Because of the hardness of your heart, he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female."
Didn't Jesus see Abraham?
Many times we fall into the trap of forming doctrines from what the Pharisees thought Messiah was saying, rather than, what He was actually saying. When you read John 8:45-58 you find that Messiah never said He saw Abraham, what He did say is, Abraham saw Messiah's day and was glad. Messiah's day was a future promise.
John 8:54-58 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I was.”
God promised Abraham that his Seed would bless the world but Abraham had no children and he was very old but, by faith, Abraham saw Messiah's day and believed God and God counted Abraham's faith as righteousness.
Genesis 15:2-6 But Abram said, “Lord God, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” Then Abram said, “Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one born in my house is my heir!” And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
By faith Abraham looked forward into the future and saw his promised Seed, which is Messiah's day, and believed.
Galatians 3:15-16 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
The reason why God could tell Abraham of his promised future Seed is because Messiah was foreordain before the foundation of the world in God's plan.
Micah 5:2 Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are too little to be among the family groups of Judah. But from you One will come who will rule for Me in Israel. His coming was planned long ago, from the beginning.
1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
So, in the great scheme of God's salvation plan, Messiah was before Abraham in the mind of God, as well as in Seed form, being the Seed of Eve.
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which God purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Didn't Jesus say He had glory with the Father before the world began?
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
The key to understand John 17:5 comes from understanding that God, in the mind of God, He foreordained Messiah's crucifixtion.
Acts 2:23 But God knew what would happen, and his prearranged plan was carried out when Jesus was betrayed. With the help of lawless Gentiles, you nailed him to a cross and killed him.
When you read the context of John 17:5 you find that Messiah was praying just before He was going to be crucified. His crucifixion was the foreordained plan of His Father and up until that point, it was only a plan but now, in the very presence of the Father, Messiah would fulfilled the glory He had with the Father, referring to the Father's foreordained plan.
John 17:1-5 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Messiah's crucifixion was the glory He had with the Father from before the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Galatians 1:4 Jesus gave his life for our sins, just as God our Father planned, in order to rescue us from this evil world in which we live.
Wasn't Jesus in the fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego?
Daniel 3:25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
Remember, the original language did not use capital letters so this translator's use of capital letters means he's trying to get us to believe something that's not there. King Nebuchadnezzar was a pagan king, do you really think he knows what THE Son of God would have looked like? Just the fact that he uses the words, "Looks like" tells us he's not talking about Jesus. As a matter of fact, Jesus, the Son of God, was not even born yet.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
Luke 1:34-35 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Notice the wording of Daniel 3:25 in a more literal translation, it says, "is like a son of the gods.
Daniel 3:25 He responded, “Look! I see four men untied and walking about in the middle of the fire unharmed, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!”
The people back in Biblical times understood, a son of the gods, to be an angel.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Jesus was never an angel, according to Hebrews 1:5.
Hebrew 1:5 God did not say to any of His angels, “You are My Son. Today I have become Your Father.” And He did not say to any angel, “I will be a Father to Him. He will be a Son to Me.”
King Nebuchadnezzar didn't see Jesus in the fire, he saw an angel sent by God, he even tells us plainly that he saw an angel.
Daniel 3:28 The king said, “Praise the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego! He sent his angel and rescued these men who serve and trust him. They disobeyed my orders and risked their lives rather than bow down and worship any god except their own.
Didn't Jesus say He came from heaven.
Many people have been taught that Jesus literally came down from heaven, as though He was in heaven prior to His birth. To understand how Jesus' point of origin, as being from heaven or came down from heaven, you have to understand these two verses.
Matthew 21:25-26 John’s baptism—where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or of human origin?” They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’ But if we say, ‘Of human origin’—we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet.”
James 3:14-15 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.
If you can understand these two verses, you can understand how Messiah, or anything else, can come down from heaven. In the same way, when the Bible says someone or something came from God or came down from heaven, it doesn't mean they literally came down form heaven or was sent from God, it just means the reason or purpose for being here is God. For example, John was sent from God but we don't teach that he came from heaven or came down from heaven.
John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
When God gave Israel bread from heaven, it not saying God has bushel baskets of bread in heaven. What he is saying is the reason for the bread being there is God.
Nehemiah 9:15 You gave them bread from heaven for their hunger.
Even Messiah's flesh came from down from heaven, but we know it didn't literally come from heaven.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
Messiah's flesh is from heaven because the Spirit and power of God came down and formed the Seed in the womb of Mary, not that Messiah flesh was in heaven first.
Luke 1:34-35 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.
Didn't Jesus say that He was sent into the world?
When Messiah says, He was sent into the world. it means He was given a mission to go into the world, not that He was sent from heaven into the world. The literal sending into the world is a horizontal sending not a vertical sending. The authority for Messiah being sent into the world is vertical. In other words, it's coming from God.
John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
We too are sent into the world, in the same way, Messiah was sent into the world.
John 17:18 Just as You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
Being sent into the world does not mean preexistence. Even when someone is born they are said to be coming into the world.
John 1:9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
Didn't God say, in Hebrews 1:2, that He made the world through Jesus?
Hebrews 1:1-2 is probably one the most clearest verse that tell us that God's Son did not exist prior to His birth because God didn't speak to us through His Son prior to His birth. It wasn't until these last days that is speaking to us through a Son.
Hebrews 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the worlds.
To understand what God means when He said He created the worlds through Messiah you have to understand the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God, as the age to come, is when all things are made new.
Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Mark 10:30 who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life.
The word (worlds) in Hebrews 1:2 is the word (age) and is referring to the age to come, not the Genesis creation. Even Hebrews 2:5 tells us that it's the age to come that Hebrews 1:2 is referring to.
Hebrews 2:5 God did not make angels to be the rulers of the age to come which is what we have been talking about.
God is creating the age to come through Messiah's resurrection, not the Genesis creation. Messiah is the firstborn from the dead and the beginning of God's new creation, the Kingdom of God.
Revelation 3:14 Write this letter to the angel of the church in Laodicea. This is the message from the one who is the Amen—the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s new creation.
The age to come is about God's Kingdom and Messiah as King. It's about the church, principalities and powers IN heaven and ON earth as seen in Colossians 1:15-18. This is not referring to the creation of THE heaven and THE earth with its birds, trees and fish as in the Genesis creation. Colossians 1:15-18 is Kingdom language, not Genesis language.
Colossians 1:15-18 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is above all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Even the Apostle Paul didn't teach or believe that Messiah preexisted His birth or that He was involved in creation. We know this because when you read about his interaction with the men of Athens he points out the altar made to the unknown god and then he starts to reveal Him to the people as the one who created the world and everything in it. He goes on to reveal how their unknown God is the one who created mankind and after saying all this, Paul then reveals the Man who God appointed to be judge and proved it by raising Him from the dead. The Man who God appointed is different than the God who created the world.
Acts 17:22-31 So Paul, standing before the council, addressed them as follows: “Men of Athens, I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about.. “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need. From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries. “His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us. For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone. “God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him. For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.”
Even Messiah Himself declares it was God who created Adam and Eve, not Him.
Matthew 19:4 Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.
Mark 10:6 Jesus said, but ‘God made them male and female’ from the beginning of creation.
The one true God, who created the world, did it all by Himself and all alone.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself.
Messiah is the promised Seed and the foreordained plan of God. He was fully and human being, just like us but He was anointed by the Spirit of God without limit so that He could speak for God and do all the miraculous things because God was in Him by His Spirit.
John 3:34 For He is sent by God. He speaks God’s words, for God gives him the Spirit without limit.
Acts 2:22-23 Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man approved by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
Acts 10:38 you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
Feel free to email me any other verses or questions that you might be struggling with.